"SixthSense Is All About Making Technology More Human!" :
A lot has happened since 2009, the year when Pranav Mistry unveiled the 'SixthSense' technology. Vandana Sharma of EFY Bureau caught up with him to know where the future of computing is headed towards, what India needs to do to come up with path-breaking and life-transforming innovations, and a lot more...
"You see things and you say 'why?' But I dream things that never were and I say, "Why not?," once said George Bernard Shaw, the Irish playwright. The same philosophy has been driving Pranav Mistry, the Indian technology wizard who is currently working as a researcher at the MIT Media Labs, US and is the man behind the sensational SixthSense technology.
For those who need an introduction, 'SixthSense' is a wearable gestural interface that breaks the conventional model of accessing the digital information via electronic devices such as mobile phones and computers. The technology instead allows users to be part of the physical world and still access the digital information existing on the World Wide Web by using natural hand gestures to interact with that information, and projecting it onto surfaces, walls, and physical objects around them. The users can even interact with the projected information through natural hand gestures.
'SixthSense' attempts to free information from its confines by seamlessly integrating it with reality, and thus making the entire world your computer.
What initial ideas led you to work on the SixthSense technology project?
From the very beginning, I wondered what the future of computing would be like and how we will interact with the digital information space, which has hitherto remained confined to the rectangular screens of our mobile phones, laptops and tablets. I always used to think why can't this model be broken.
More than this, I thought it would be interesting to use the real world as the interaction space with the digital world. Before the SixthSense project, there were many other projects that I undertook to achieve this end, but probably my approach was not right. However, gradually things began to fall in place.
SixthSense looks no less than magic. Could you demystify the SixthSense technology in simple words and tell us about the pieces of technology that have come together to create this technology?
To develop the SixthSense interface, I have used a combination of a very simple hardware component comprising a camera, sensors, an Internet-enabled mobile device and a projector. Currently, in the latest version of the interface, I am using a laser projector with a laser diode inside, which can project on any surface. Technically, the interesting thing about laser projector is that it never goes out of focus. Since the application that I have suggested in the interface requires the user to wear a projector on their body, a laser projector becomes advantageous as the user doesn't need to adjust the focus.
So hardware-wise it is very simple. The plus point of these hardware is they are cheap and are going smaller and smaller every month, leave alone a year.
You have made the SixthSense technology open source. What has inspired you to share the technology with the community?
Yes I've made the SixthSense project open source. Its hardware specifications and software code are available at http://code.google.com/p/sixthsense/
Not only have people begun to download the code and play with it, but they are also helping us make it better. One thing I have noticed is that a technology, which gets locked down into some corporate policies and confines of the intellectual property can be soon forgotten.
I come from India, an area where till a few years back the notion of technological advances has always been associated with the western world; to advances aimed at making the life of the western world better and better. But if you observe, life in the western world is good already and we need to break this model.
It is the two-third other world that needs the technological advances so that the life of people in these countries becomes better. While I could have made more money if I had sold the technology to a big company, I believe I will get more blessings if I share the technology out in the open for the benefit of the masses.
Will the SixthSense technology replace the mobile phones and laptops someday?
SixthSense is not an alternative to these devices. It is only going to add an option to the existing computing world. We are going to become human again by making computing more human. That is, access to the digital world will no longer remain confined to the rectangular screen of devices. People will be able to interact with and access the digital world while continuing to be in the real world, and not necessarily via the conventional devices.
Which of your other research projects, apart from SixthSense, are special to you?
There are a lot of long-term projects that I am involved in. Ghost in the machine--a project on which I worked when I was at IIT-Mumbai--is a special project. The project is likely to have long-term implications. It explored how machines can be made more creative. Lot of big corporates like IBM and DARPA are working on future technologies like artificial intelligence (AI) with an aim to make machines more intelligent. They are working on making machines as interesting collaborators of humans, capable of better serving the humanity and earth.
In 2008, I explored what the future of augmented reality will be and used it in my projects as an input medium to access information from the digital world. But now I am re-asking my question as part of my current project named TeleTouch. I am exploring what is the inverse of the augment reality? So far it has remained an input device for us where the information is being accessed via devices. But in this project I am trying to use augment reality as an output medium to touch and control things that are far and wide in the real world. I am trying to explore how can I touch far, for instance, my door which is 20 metres away from me.
The technology will enable users to use their smartphone's camera and control everything they see on the screen by touching it. Users can interact with their appliances from far and perform tasks like opening the door, switching the light on or off, and a lot more just by touching the objects on the phone's screen. It doesn't really mean to control home appliances or office environment. It is about how in computing we can transfer data between or passing the medias it expands across by touching far.
Tell us a little about 'Sparsh,' which also is a touch-based interface for transmitting data where the user acts like a USB drive?
Sparsh is an interaction method that lets users conceptually transfer media from one digital device to their body, and pass it to the other digital device by simple touch gestures. In Sparsh, we are playing with the perception of the user. Although it appears that when a user touches any data, it become part of the user. But actually the user acts just as a token or ID and the data gets copied in a particular folder that belongs to the user's id in the cloud and stays there.
It is something like the e-mail in concept, which can be checked from anywhere. But if I show something as simple as an e-mail to my grandma, she may wonder how I am able to check the same e-mail in office that I checked at home. She may ask if I brought it along from office. The concept of Sparsh is similar, where the user appears to have become a USB drive but the magic is happening in the cloud.
You are also working on Invent--a programming language for children. Please tell us a little about this.
Invent is a project that has really been close to my heart, even more than SixthSense. It was my master thesis at IIT-Mumbai. For two years while I was working on this project I spent most of my time in the IIT-Mumbai library. I read a lot of books written by psychologists and played with kids.
Kids always have dreams and they want to do something weird. For example, they might want to make some blocks fly, or have a banana swim in the river of stones. The goal of this project was to give wings to the kids' imagination. There is no tool right now with which they can play around and explore their imaginative ideas and creativity. Invent is aimed at enabling that.
You say that Indian epics inspire you to think about new research projects and innovations. How?
Yes, I owe most of my research ideas not to sci-fi fiction or movies but to the Indian epics. The tales of magic and miracles narrated in these epics always used to intrigue and inspire me to think beyond what existed around. Besides, I strongly feel if you can think something, it can be turned into reality. Don't we already make a dream half real by thinking about it?
Not only SixthSense, but many of my other projects such as Sparsh are inspired from the Indian culture. I am not saying that everyone should read Indian epics to draw inspiration. But since I come from India, it becomes easy for me to relate to the literature that has been part of my upbringing.
Does each research finding or project help you take your next research project to another level?
When I start a project I never think of what I know and the tools or abilities that I have. Instead, I think about the question to which I wish to find an answer or the problem that I wish to solve through my research, and then try to put a dream into reality. Once I decide on the problem that I want to solve, I look for the tools that I would need to solve it. These could be the tools that I might have created or a few new ones.
For instance, when I started the SixthSense project I didn't have much knowledge about the computer vision technology but I acquired it. It is not that I knew about computer vision that's why I began working on SixthSense. I had a goal that's why I selected it in the tools.
What factor(s) will determine or impact the future of technology?
Humanisation of technology will change the way we interact with objects and create technologies and new products. These days people talk about user interfaces and user experience since most of the products have matured. If we take the example of a watch, in older times while buying a wrist watch people used to ask the vendor how accurate the watch was. But now people ask different questions. They look for brands, colours and designs. No one asks if its accurate as the watch should be accurate by default.
Now we all ask different questions while buying products. User experience has become the paramount requirement. This is going to change the technology landscape too. Realising this, even big corporates are hiring professionals such as anthropologists and psychologists, who have nothing to do with technology. They are consulted when the product teams conceive and develop a technology for the simple reason to know how humans interact and behave.
You have been a research intern with some of the best organisations of the world such as MSIDC, NASA, Google and UNESCO, and now MIT. If you had to enumerate some of the best points about the eco-system provided by these organisations to researchers what would these be?
Lot of people say that resources help you. The answer is 'yes' and 'no'. If you invest 500 billion dollars in setting up a research lab, put in the world's best resources, and put Pranav Mistry in it with the hope of building something interesting, I don't think that would work.
I feel that sometimes it is the lack of resources that helps you innovate and leverage different sides of your creativity. I can say this from my research experience in India where most of my projects were somehow always aimed at leveraging less money and less resources to create economically simple innovations.
When we make a technology under constraints, it may not be as perfect as the one build at the NASA labs, but you end up building a technology that would be affordable and might even reach a villager in India. So if your technology is low cost, chances of it reaching far and wide become greater. In MIT also, where we have all the resources for research, I still sometimes choose to work under constraints and set myself targets like building all my project devices below $10.
Other kind of resources that you can't replace in any laboratory are people around you. At Media Lab for instance, I am surrounded by people like doctors, anthropologists, architects and psychologist. They are not necessarily helping me; they are working on their own projects. But we communicate, collaborate and interact and that sometimes gives an entirely different perspective to your research. This is what I call the best resources.
Did you always want to be a researcher?
I never thought I would be a researcher. The only thing that I continue to believe is that more than a researcher I am a dreamer who wants to leave his dreams behind. I always do whatever I like to do. Tomorrow if I would feel that I am not liking what I am doing and would want to play cricket instead or act in a movie, I will give up everything and do that. I gain my freedom by doing whatever I do the best.
"One needs to think like Leonardo did...we need to broaden our perspective to see technologies from design, humanities, art, psychology and social aspects and vise versa." Could you elaborate this statement that you wrote in one of your blogs on your website?
To me Leonardo's life is very inspiring. If I ask you who Leonardo was? An architect, musician, biologist, painter, sculptor or a physicist? You might say there is no single answer to this. He was a multi-faceted persona. We need to have more Leonardos.
I find it strange whenever a person says I am an engineer as I have a degree in engineering. I feel spending a few years in an engineering college doesn't make you an engineer. Similarly, if you go to a business school you don't become a businessman. The best known businessmen never went to a business school; the best known scientists never went to an engineering school. I don't believe in the fields that we create based on degrees because none of these fields exist independently; they rely upon each other.
I feel our education system needs to change. It has begun to some extent already. A lot of mixing of fields is already happening. Like now we have courses such as bio-physics and physical chemistry. This should be happening not only in the science field but other fields too. We need to look at technology from the art's perspective and vice versa. There is a need to design our technology instead of just building it.
What needs to be done in the Indian engineering institutes so that students come up with path-breaking and life-transforming innovations?
I feel in India we already have all the talent. The intelligence is there already; we just need to do some self-appraisals. It's not that innovations are not happening in India. In fact, a lot of interesting work is happening in India, which is getting replicated in the western world a few years later. I have observed recently that a few projects here are exactly the same what my colleagues used to work on in the IIT-Mumbai labs some three years back. I am also an Indian and it's not that I came to the US and the next day I became smart.
I have seen that while the professors in the Indian colleges would acknowledge the papers published and research done by researchers at MIT or Stanford, they won't acknowledge similar or even better innovations done by the students in their own labs. Our academia are becoming more obsolete. It is less connected to the industry. In the West, industry and academia function in collaboration and rely upon each other. Academia tries to understand what the industry wants from professionals. That's not happening in Indian colleges.
In India, however, in the engineering colleges we still read the text books written some 20 to 30 years back. When a student steps out of the college, he realises that the capacitor he saw and read about in his books doesn't even exist anywhere in the real life.
How can the Indian education system evolve so that we have more students coming up with innovations?
We need to allocate more resources for research. Apart from this, one thing that needs to be realised in the education system is that the student is not coming to school or college to get information. Information is available everywhere. Data is what students have in abundance--more than what their professors or teachers might be having. Hence, the focus should be on teaching them the skill to use this data to solve real-life problems.
What message would you like to give to the young engineers in India?
Personally I feel we don't need to become someone else. So I would suggest to the Indian youth is to try to be yourself. Try and solve your problems yourself instead of waiting for the western world to come up with a solution. We don't need to follow any model. We have our own problems and we can't solve them by using the solutions of the other world.
Like for instance, I feel a computer for every student is not necessarily a solution for the Indian education system right now. To my mind even a pen and notebook might be a better way to educate kids in some scenarios. It doesn't always help to bring in technology into everything and we also need to understand that technology doesn't necessarily mean electronics-related technology; a paper and pencil is also a technology for me.
Last but not the least, tell us about your association with EFY?
I will tell you a secret. I grew up reading EFY in India. And it was so much pleasure and surprise when I was approached by you for getting featured in it. Would love to get a copy of this magazine at home! I am sure my dad will feel great. He used to teach me and make all sort of stuff from EFY guides.
A lot has happened since 2009, the year when Pranav Mistry unveiled the 'SixthSense' technology. Vandana Sharma of EFY Bureau caught up with him to know where the future of computing is headed towards, what India needs to do to come up with path-breaking and life-transforming innovations, and a lot more...
"You see things and you say 'why?' But I dream things that never were and I say, "Why not?," once said George Bernard Shaw, the Irish playwright. The same philosophy has been driving Pranav Mistry, the Indian technology wizard who is currently working as a researcher at the MIT Media Labs, US and is the man behind the sensational SixthSense technology.
For those who need an introduction, 'SixthSense' is a wearable gestural interface that breaks the conventional model of accessing the digital information via electronic devices such as mobile phones and computers. The technology instead allows users to be part of the physical world and still access the digital information existing on the World Wide Web by using natural hand gestures to interact with that information, and projecting it onto surfaces, walls, and physical objects around them. The users can even interact with the projected information through natural hand gestures.
'SixthSense' attempts to free information from its confines by seamlessly integrating it with reality, and thus making the entire world your computer.
What initial ideas led you to work on the SixthSense technology project?
From the very beginning, I wondered what the future of computing would be like and how we will interact with the digital information space, which has hitherto remained confined to the rectangular screens of our mobile phones, laptops and tablets. I always used to think why can't this model be broken.
More than this, I thought it would be interesting to use the real world as the interaction space with the digital world. Before the SixthSense project, there were many other projects that I undertook to achieve this end, but probably my approach was not right. However, gradually things began to fall in place.
SixthSense looks no less than magic. Could you demystify the SixthSense technology in simple words and tell us about the pieces of technology that have come together to create this technology?
To develop the SixthSense interface, I have used a combination of a very simple hardware component comprising a camera, sensors, an Internet-enabled mobile device and a projector. Currently, in the latest version of the interface, I am using a laser projector with a laser diode inside, which can project on any surface. Technically, the interesting thing about laser projector is that it never goes out of focus. Since the application that I have suggested in the interface requires the user to wear a projector on their body, a laser projector becomes advantageous as the user doesn't need to adjust the focus.
So hardware-wise it is very simple. The plus point of these hardware is they are cheap and are going smaller and smaller every month, leave alone a year.
But the advantage of using the projection technology is that it can be reduced to the size of a button and any surface can be used as the output medium. You can project on a table, wall, newspaper or your palm, so it eliminates the limitation of the screen. That's an interesting phenomenon that will impact the way we interact with the digital world.
You have made the SixthSense technology open source. What has inspired you to share the technology with the community?
Yes I've made the SixthSense project open source. Its hardware specifications and software code are available at http://code.google.com/p/sixthsense/
Not only have people begun to download the code and play with it, but they are also helping us make it better. One thing I have noticed is that a technology, which gets locked down into some corporate policies and confines of the intellectual property can be soon forgotten.
I come from India, an area where till a few years back the notion of technological advances has always been associated with the western world; to advances aimed at making the life of the western world better and better. But if you observe, life in the western world is good already and we need to break this model.
It is the two-third other world that needs the technological advances so that the life of people in these countries becomes better. While I could have made more money if I had sold the technology to a big company, I believe I will get more blessings if I share the technology out in the open for the benefit of the masses.
Will the SixthSense technology replace the mobile phones and laptops someday?
SixthSense is not an alternative to these devices. It is only going to add an option to the existing computing world. We are going to become human again by making computing more human. That is, access to the digital world will no longer remain confined to the rectangular screen of devices. People will be able to interact with and access the digital world while continuing to be in the real world, and not necessarily via the conventional devices.
Which of your other research projects, apart from SixthSense, are special to you?
There are a lot of long-term projects that I am involved in. Ghost in the machine--a project on which I worked when I was at IIT-Mumbai--is a special project. The project is likely to have long-term implications. It explored how machines can be made more creative. Lot of big corporates like IBM and DARPA are working on future technologies like artificial intelligence (AI) with an aim to make machines more intelligent. They are working on making machines as interesting collaborators of humans, capable of better serving the humanity and earth.
In 2008, I explored what the future of augmented reality will be and used it in my projects as an input medium to access information from the digital world. But now I am re-asking my question as part of my current project named TeleTouch. I am exploring what is the inverse of the augment reality? So far it has remained an input device for us where the information is being accessed via devices. But in this project I am trying to use augment reality as an output medium to touch and control things that are far and wide in the real world. I am trying to explore how can I touch far, for instance, my door which is 20 metres away from me.
The technology will enable users to use their smartphone's camera and control everything they see on the screen by touching it. Users can interact with their appliances from far and perform tasks like opening the door, switching the light on or off, and a lot more just by touching the objects on the phone's screen. It doesn't really mean to control home appliances or office environment. It is about how in computing we can transfer data between or passing the medias it expands across by touching far.
Sparsh is an interaction method that lets users conceptually transfer media from one digital device to their body, and pass it to the other digital device by simple touch gestures. In Sparsh, we are playing with the perception of the user. Although it appears that when a user touches any data, it become part of the user. But actually the user acts just as a token or ID and the data gets copied in a particular folder that belongs to the user's id in the cloud and stays there.
The data is matched with the token of the user in the cloud. Now when the user touches another media or device where he wishes to paste the data, the device accesses the data corresponding to the user's id in the cloud.
It is something like the e-mail in concept, which can be checked from anywhere. But if I show something as simple as an e-mail to my grandma, she may wonder how I am able to check the same e-mail in office that I checked at home. She may ask if I brought it along from office. The concept of Sparsh is similar, where the user appears to have become a USB drive but the magic is happening in the cloud.
You are also working on Invent--a programming language for children. Please tell us a little about this.
Invent is a project that has really been close to my heart, even more than SixthSense. It was my master thesis at IIT-Mumbai. For two years while I was working on this project I spent most of my time in the IIT-Mumbai library. I read a lot of books written by psychologists and played with kids.
Kids always have dreams and they want to do something weird. For example, they might want to make some blocks fly, or have a banana swim in the river of stones. The goal of this project was to give wings to the kids' imagination. There is no tool right now with which they can play around and explore their imaginative ideas and creativity. Invent is aimed at enabling that.
You say that Indian epics inspire you to think about new research projects and innovations. How?
Yes, I owe most of my research ideas not to sci-fi fiction or movies but to the Indian epics. The tales of magic and miracles narrated in these epics always used to intrigue and inspire me to think beyond what existed around. Besides, I strongly feel if you can think something, it can be turned into reality. Don't we already make a dream half real by thinking about it?
Not only SixthSense, but many of my other projects such as Sparsh are inspired from the Indian culture. I am not saying that everyone should read Indian epics to draw inspiration. But since I come from India, it becomes easy for me to relate to the literature that has been part of my upbringing.
Does each research finding or project help you take your next research project to another level?
When I start a project I never think of what I know and the tools or abilities that I have. Instead, I think about the question to which I wish to find an answer or the problem that I wish to solve through my research, and then try to put a dream into reality. Once I decide on the problem that I want to solve, I look for the tools that I would need to solve it. These could be the tools that I might have created or a few new ones.
For instance, when I started the SixthSense project I didn't have much knowledge about the computer vision technology but I acquired it. It is not that I knew about computer vision that's why I began working on SixthSense. I had a goal that's why I selected it in the tools.
What factor(s) will determine or impact the future of technology?
Humanisation of technology will change the way we interact with objects and create technologies and new products. These days people talk about user interfaces and user experience since most of the products have matured. If we take the example of a watch, in older times while buying a wrist watch people used to ask the vendor how accurate the watch was. But now people ask different questions. They look for brands, colours and designs. No one asks if its accurate as the watch should be accurate by default.
Now we all ask different questions while buying products. User experience has become the paramount requirement. This is going to change the technology landscape too. Realising this, even big corporates are hiring professionals such as anthropologists and psychologists, who have nothing to do with technology. They are consulted when the product teams conceive and develop a technology for the simple reason to know how humans interact and behave.
You have been a research intern with some of the best organisations of the world such as MSIDC, NASA, Google and UNESCO, and now MIT. If you had to enumerate some of the best points about the eco-system provided by these organisations to researchers what would these be?
Lot of people say that resources help you. The answer is 'yes' and 'no'. If you invest 500 billion dollars in setting up a research lab, put in the world's best resources, and put Pranav Mistry in it with the hope of building something interesting, I don't think that would work.
I feel that sometimes it is the lack of resources that helps you innovate and leverage different sides of your creativity. I can say this from my research experience in India where most of my projects were somehow always aimed at leveraging less money and less resources to create economically simple innovations.
When we make a technology under constraints, it may not be as perfect as the one build at the NASA labs, but you end up building a technology that would be affordable and might even reach a villager in India. So if your technology is low cost, chances of it reaching far and wide become greater. In MIT also, where we have all the resources for research, I still sometimes choose to work under constraints and set myself targets like building all my project devices below $10.
Other kind of resources that you can't replace in any laboratory are people around you. At Media Lab for instance, I am surrounded by people like doctors, anthropologists, architects and psychologist. They are not necessarily helping me; they are working on their own projects. But we communicate, collaborate and interact and that sometimes gives an entirely different perspective to your research. This is what I call the best resources.
Did you always want to be a researcher?
I never thought I would be a researcher. The only thing that I continue to believe is that more than a researcher I am a dreamer who wants to leave his dreams behind. I always do whatever I like to do. Tomorrow if I would feel that I am not liking what I am doing and would want to play cricket instead or act in a movie, I will give up everything and do that. I gain my freedom by doing whatever I do the best.
"One needs to think like Leonardo did...we need to broaden our perspective to see technologies from design, humanities, art, psychology and social aspects and vise versa." Could you elaborate this statement that you wrote in one of your blogs on your website?
To me Leonardo's life is very inspiring. If I ask you who Leonardo was? An architect, musician, biologist, painter, sculptor or a physicist? You might say there is no single answer to this. He was a multi-faceted persona. We need to have more Leonardos.
I find it strange whenever a person says I am an engineer as I have a degree in engineering. I feel spending a few years in an engineering college doesn't make you an engineer. Similarly, if you go to a business school you don't become a businessman. The best known businessmen never went to a business school; the best known scientists never went to an engineering school. I don't believe in the fields that we create based on degrees because none of these fields exist independently; they rely upon each other.
I feel our education system needs to change. It has begun to some extent already. A lot of mixing of fields is already happening. Like now we have courses such as bio-physics and physical chemistry. This should be happening not only in the science field but other fields too. We need to look at technology from the art's perspective and vice versa. There is a need to design our technology instead of just building it.
What needs to be done in the Indian engineering institutes so that students come up with path-breaking and life-transforming innovations?
I feel in India we already have all the talent. The intelligence is there already; we just need to do some self-appraisals. It's not that innovations are not happening in India. In fact, a lot of interesting work is happening in India, which is getting replicated in the western world a few years later. I have observed recently that a few projects here are exactly the same what my colleagues used to work on in the IIT-Mumbai labs some three years back. I am also an Indian and it's not that I came to the US and the next day I became smart.
I have seen that while the professors in the Indian colleges would acknowledge the papers published and research done by researchers at MIT or Stanford, they won't acknowledge similar or even better innovations done by the students in their own labs. Our academia are becoming more obsolete. It is less connected to the industry. In the West, industry and academia function in collaboration and rely upon each other. Academia tries to understand what the industry wants from professionals. That's not happening in Indian colleges.
In India, however, in the engineering colleges we still read the text books written some 20 to 30 years back. When a student steps out of the college, he realises that the capacitor he saw and read about in his books doesn't even exist anywhere in the real life.
How can the Indian education system evolve so that we have more students coming up with innovations?
We need to allocate more resources for research. Apart from this, one thing that needs to be realised in the education system is that the student is not coming to school or college to get information. Information is available everywhere. Data is what students have in abundance--more than what their professors or teachers might be having. Hence, the focus should be on teaching them the skill to use this data to solve real-life problems.
What message would you like to give to the young engineers in India?
Personally I feel we don't need to become someone else. So I would suggest to the Indian youth is to try to be yourself. Try and solve your problems yourself instead of waiting for the western world to come up with a solution. We don't need to follow any model. We have our own problems and we can't solve them by using the solutions of the other world.
Like for instance, I feel a computer for every student is not necessarily a solution for the Indian education system right now. To my mind even a pen and notebook might be a better way to educate kids in some scenarios. It doesn't always help to bring in technology into everything and we also need to understand that technology doesn't necessarily mean electronics-related technology; a paper and pencil is also a technology for me.
Last but not the least, tell us about your association with EFY?
I will tell you a secret. I grew up reading EFY in India. And it was so much pleasure and surprise when I was approached by you for getting featured in it. Would love to get a copy of this magazine at home! I am sure my dad will feel great. He used to teach me and make all sort of stuff from EFY guides.
ITI
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